turtledovefandomcom-20200216-history
Talk:Sophie Hamburger
I thought Yossel Sr did marry Sophie after finishing basic training and before shipping out to the front. The Yossel Sr article does say he succeeded in getting leave and marrying Sophie in a civil ceremony. Incidentally, the first post was mine from May 2007 and before I knew about four tildas. ML4E 22:38, 7 April 2008 (UTC) :We'll have to see about reconciling the issue. TR 22:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC) :I recall him coming home and saying "We can get married tomorrow," the Hamburgers being surprised that Mr Talmud would go for a civil ceremony on such short notice. I can't say for sure that Sophie went for it; she might have said something like "You being willing is enough for me, we can wait and do it right." Or they may have gone for it with the understanding that they'd go to a rabbi later on. I just don't recall. It's been a long time, and I have too many books I want to read for the first time to reread even my all-time favorites. Turtle Fan 04:19, 8 April 2008 (UTC) :Yossel came back from the front for a four day leave, saying they should get married in that time by a judge and then have a rabbi settle it when he comes back for a longer leave or after the war. Sophie accepted, and that was that. Jelay14 04:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC) ::To their mind it probably didn't count. To the government's it did. To Judaism's, that I really don't know much about. Turtle Fan 06:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC) ::For the purposes of the article, it should reflect that they had a judge marry them, that is if they did. I do recall Yossel suggested a judge because of the shortness of the time he had and that Flora was especially surprised since he was a rabbinical student before he got called up. I don't think the book said whether or not they carried it out but I think it is in keeping with the story to assume they did. Certainly, there was never a hint in the subsequent story that Yossel Jr. was considered a bastard (except maybe by Armstrong in the field ;) ). ML4E 00:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC) Well bastardy is marked from date of conception, so that fact was incontrovertible in the strictest sense. My guess is, if his parents were engaged when his father was killed, no one would give him a harder time than they would if they had gone through with it. Turtle Fan 05:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC) I believe the mores of the time were that if the couple actually married (e.g. he made an honest woman of her) no one would make an issue of it aside from snide gossip. Look at the conversation Cinci had with his wife just prior to his daughter's marriage in IatD. Some additional points to consider would be that Yossel Jr. did have his father's last name and that Yossel Sr. would have wanted to make sure Sophie and his child received death benefits from the government if he didn't survive the war. The only way to do the second would be to marry her if only civilly. ML4E 01:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)